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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:21 pm 
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Fishie wrote:
Eh, this is just guessing. You don't know this for certain.

I think it is sound to say that with this game model, more players increases the competition for the higher leagues, I mean there is more to support the point that more players increases competition and the quality of the matches, some examples would be:

-The biggest sports on earth e.g basketball/ football/ rugby etc
-Some of the biggest competetive games : League of Legends, Dota , overwatch
-business life cycles from Apple to Google

So yes, of course it is nothing more then an educated guess but it is demonstrated everywhere, So I think I can safely assume that the case would be true here

Player injection issue:
That said, I agree, whenever we have a larger then expected player injection the entire system goes haywire, this isn't a case of >100 hours superiority but <10 hours which Is much easier to base an assumption that they haven't quite got to grips and should not get to l2-l1, I mean for 10 hours at roughly 15 minutes a game, they would have only played 40 games.

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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:06 pm 
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from the original post, it's very understandable that the game would favor 3 EUs vs 3 EUs rather than 3 EUs vs 2 US, even if it would've made more sense rating wise. if there's EU matches available for me that aren't completely broken, i don't want to get matched vs 180 ping, that goes without saying.

the matchmaking isn't completely terrible, there's just such a huge gap between player's skills and their capability of playing against every naut. some people might have had the easiest time getting to rank 500 but then struggle on my team when they play against game is broken's premade or some characters. i don't think the matchmaking is broken, even if there's a lot of questionable matches it's probably 9/10 matches of the 5min pool that are evenly matched and made more sense for the program than to provide you with the best possible game every time you queue (especially when you're laggy to every evenly skilled player in the pool).

there's definitely room for improvement but overall it's really just that the lack of great players, so league 1-2 don't stand out from the rest enough for the system to be stricter.

and whoever said matchmaking gets better as you rank up, it actually gets worse for those people as they're compensated with lower rating players on their team and there's a lower chance someone's queuing in their skill range. if you're struggling with the matchmaking in lower leagues you probably aren't good enough to be ranked higher regardless of teammates.

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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:41 am 
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Zold wrote:
Joost wrote:
For example, in Awesomenauts we've chosen to ignore ping with teammates: the matchmaker only looks at ping with enemies. This is because you can't hit your teammates anyway, so if there's more lag there then that will be much less of a problem. In an ideal world we would also want a low ping with teammates, but in practice we can achieve better ping with enemies if we ignore ping with teammates, and thus in our case this is a good choice to make.


It's on his devblog. I kinda dislike how Joost argues that you can't 'hit' your teammates when we have several AA's and abilities that do hit your teammates. I guess it's still much better than laggy opponents though. And yeah, no idea what's up with forum moderation these days.


so basically (and these are arbitrary #s im making up just to make sure i understand), say my ping to edd was 200, but my ping to who i played was 150, but say the 'average' skill of me/edd/nick was related like a 175, and the average skill of who we played was 150, that 50 ping difference is greater than that 25pt skill difference, so the game chose the ping difference?

i still think edd should have been opposite team but it seems less like a glitch now, ill admit that.

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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:44 am 
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Quote:
Also Mr pillow, you may have zero obligation to respond in a constructive manner, but you made this post, so why bother?


Well in replying to it, it got Edd to present some actual insight onto an opposite viewpoint as opposed to one that goes "nah uh mm good its just playerbase size" and I learned something new, so I would so the productivity it resulted in was pretty sufficient motivation to bother.

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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:22 am 
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MrPillowTheGreat wrote:
...

Something like that yeah. The exact method of how it works is unclear to me, but if you'd really wanna know you could PM Joost for that I guess. Personally I think the soloqueue matchmaking is pretty okay, though I really feel as if duoqueue and trioqueue have no place in soloqueue matchmaking. Sadly enough we don't have the playerbase to split duo/trio from solo.

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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:56 am 
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Pretty much agree with Zold on this one, the real problem matches I have had are those where one team is a duo or premade, Like I pointed out to you previously Mr pillow. This doesn't mean that playing with friends is bad and I support it more than solo, but an advantage of having a cooperating partner in a team based game is a heavy driving factor.

If you don't want a response going over the playerbase that's fine, all the posts regarding this have been laid out. That said there is a reason why the playerbase is mentioned a lot with this specific subject, there is little new to learn on this other than asking Ronimo to explain some logic.

I am interested in knowing the current method behind it, if we join a game are the 6 players chosen by rating then teams organised by ping, if so how does duo queing effect this priority, as the act of premading would then in theory make laggy games more possible.
The only laggy games I have seen have been when joining a duo when solo or being in a premade myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:38 pm 
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>Be me
>League 3
>Get in unbalanced match
>"wut league r u guys?"
>Ally 1: 4
>Ally 2: 8
>Enemy 1: 2
>Enemy 2: 1
>Enemy 3: 6

: ok :
Why the * do we have Leagues if the matchmaker is going to pull players out of a hat and put them together anyways? :think:

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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Hey guys,
Eddster and others have pretty much explained why the matchups were this way, so lemme just throw some numbers your way to back them up.

The reason Eddster was put with MrPillow was because the opposing team had poor ping to eachother (up to 500), meaning a swap would put them against a high-ping player, which as Zold quoted we avoid as much as possible.

Similarly, MrPillow+Eddster weren't placed against Sam&co because MrPillow's ping to one of the players in Sam's team was 380. Additionally, if this matchup was made and we were to place the other teams against each other, they'd be faced with extremely high ping as well (300-600 range).

Sadly this is the case for most of these unlucky matchups - there's not enough high-ranking players queueing at the same time to properly match them together. The community seems rather split on their preferences as well. Here's a small (and incomplete) list of things we try to balance:
- low-ping games vs low skill-difference
- good matchups vs short queue times
- people not wanting to queue against the same people repeatedly
- matching premades against other premades

@GuyBrush: Since Galactron Leagues are purely a visual thing in leaderboards - now we just try to minimize rating difference rather than look at which bucket a player falls in.


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 Post subject: Re: Perfect example of irrefutably broken matchmaking
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Cheers Dennis that's great to know.

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