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 Post subject: Re: Valentina the Valkyrie
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:18 pm 
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As someone who liked all of the finalists and also all of the finalist artworks and designs, I'm glad you remade her a bit and posted here.

I still hope someday Ronimo will inspire themselves to create a similair naut, if not, we'll at least have this awesome thread :leoneyes:

My only problems were that her shield needs a bit more tweaking and I wouldn't mind some changes to AA. Val is simple naut with decent skill floor, but I think naut like she needs a bit variaty to her standard attack to make her not dull.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina the Valkyrie
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:51 pm 
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Location: In my palace, mixing my martinis with paint thinner and a healthy squirt of epoxy adhesive.
kathy wrote:
Some notes as I look at your post:

1. On flight mechanics: I don't like unnecessarily mapping multiple buttons to the same action. Jumping and holding the button is used for gaining height and triggering flight by accident would be a nightmare. It was terrible with jumping down glass platforms on a controller, and it could be even worse if it screws over a particular character's mechanics. There's already a button that toggles flight, so why not just use that? Nobody would care if it were renamed to a generic "toggle flight" button.

I was initially confused as to how Valentina's jump and flight mechanics would worm together, as they were both listed - such a combination does not exist in the game at this point and I was therefore unaware of exactly what you meant; this makes it more clear.

2. Great Brass Helm: I'm not a fan of these "every second/third hit" upgrades and mechanics. Could anything replace it, though?

Although I can assure you it is possible to design a hugely-powerful 'Naut with no damage upgrades whatsoever (anyone that tells you differently is, I am afraid, wrong), I quite liked the idea of Valentina being rewarded for being able to consistently land hits with what amounts to a 26.7% damage increase (a fairly good number).

3. Gilded Feathers: I think I'd prefer it to be nauts-only. I don't think we want her traveling the field at that speed all the time.

This would suit her much better as a 'Naut's-only upgrade, as its use for me would have been while fighting enemy Awesomenauts.

4. Blazing Halberd: I like the idea quite a bit. It theoretically doubles the damage of each hit, but it's conditional and can be countered by regen.

Indeed. This would also work to reduce the effectiveness of Great Brass Helm, as the DoT would not stack - helping to reduce the mandatory aspect of that upgrade, if it had one.

5. Chain Flail of Flailing: Looks like an awfully big range increase. I might just be bad at visualizing it, though.

It would increase her AA range from 6.5 to 8.06, which is Raelynn's attack range (8 really): For reference, Rocco's AA begins with 9 range and goes up to 11.7 - a substantially greater increase, and yet no one thinks of Rocket Pack as overpowered.

6. Randomly Enchanted Dagger: I'm glad to see a unique type of lifesteal upgrade. It helps her get HP but only when she really needs it.

This would grant her some survivability (important for a tanking 'Naut) without making her extremely hard to force out of lane, even under combined effort.

7. Scale Mail of Champions: I like the idea of a Rage-sized flash of damage that requires delaying. It seems like a nice initiator tool.

This would also serve to assist her and her allies if they lacked a form of reliable initiation - she is a supportive tank, after all.

8. On shield mechanics: I like how active you made it. I think she should be slowed a bit.

I had considered slowing her while the shield is up, and perchance it would be a good idea - this would also make another upgrade easy to design.

8. Fake Golden Spuds: I guess I like this, but I can't picture actually using this. It's part of why I wanted the reflection to be on base: the skill basically has Valentina step forward in a flash over a very short distance (think the distance of a turret) with a cool afterimage effect, lasting less than half a second. Projectile reflection sounds too niche and unspectacular to justify spending money on it.

The problem with having permanent reflection on a 'Naut like Valentina is that she is already quite capable of absorbing damage for her allies - to then increase this effect massively against projectiles is a slight polarising. I had considered making her change grant nearby allies a debuff that causes them to reflect projectiles for its (short) duration.

9. Reverberation Horn: I like the idea of a radius effect on impact. I just don't know what on earth "4.5 radius" means in terms of actual radius.

This is where Ronimo's entirely arbitrary measurement system actually begins to get in the way of simple design. Generally, area of effect attacks are measured in the radius (distance between midpoint and edge), or their "size" (double the radius). For reference, Clunk's Explode has a "size" of 9, and thus a radius of 4.5.

10. Runic Shield Attachment: It's a niche upgrade, but I can imagine it being quite useful. With the bash's limited aiming and not particularly good base range, this shouldn't be too overpowered.

I could not really think of anything to go in this slot, so this is a slightly uninspired upgrade. Perhaps she could empower nearby allies, increasing their damage for a short while upon charging?

11. Wing Bracers: I really love this. It makes for a great and unique way for a character to tank a turret for allies and sustain a push without allowing the character itself to deal damage to the turret. It's a unique mechanic that really sells the shield. I don't know much about this game's numbers to know how much of a difference that 56% makes, especially in the new system, moreso if she gets Barrier Magazine. People might be afraid of its interaction with Voltar, but that's a problem with Voltar, not Valentina.

The upgrade I put the most time into gets the best review: Success.

12. Holy Rocket Launcher: Decent enough, I suppose.

More creative than a flat damage increase, no?

13. Blessings of Cthulhu: I wanted to stray away from a regen upgrade like this. It promotes rather wasteful use of the skill for free healing, just like Herring Snack Badge can.

I suppose so. Perhaps I should add a prerequisite that Valentina has to strike an enemy for the regeneration to work.

14. On Fiery Slice: I didn't really imagine Valentina as being a healer. I was thinking of something sorta like Raelynn who can be a "support fighter" by fighting from the back lines and helping tank stuff, but also having tools to deal with people up close. I guess that if it's tied to flight it's fine for her to have some healing.

I wanted Valentina to have some supportive options available outside of her shield, lest she become a one-trick pony. I chose the HoT because it would initially be weak, but have just enough impact to help her allies in the long run - the game also has a notable lack of HoT effects anyway.

15. Clock of Re-Re-Re-Reset: A nice idea for cooldown upgrade. It won't always be useful in the ways that a flat cooldown upgrade would because it has a condition that depends on how the skill itself is used. It sounds much more useful in the air than on ground. Maybe it could have a different reduction when on the ground? Maybe it's just fine as it is.

It is also intended to work with Gemini if that makes it appear more lucrative.

16. Aggression Sticker: Another nice twist on a preexisting mechanic (amp) and I really like it. It's much more interesting than a plain amp or a plain damage increase. The only thing I don't know is how long it should last.

A lesson into how to make a 'Naut more powerful without giving them pure damage upgrades that require zero skill.

17. Gemini: A nice conditional damage/area denial mix. No problems here. It's a cool idea, but I'm wondering whether it should go to Valentina herself (like Skree's sawblades) or back to where she stood when firing. I can imagine fun droid clearing with this if it's the latter: having your spear blast back and forth on a lane.

I had intended it to work as Sawblade does, and I shall clarify this.

18. Hellfire and Brimstone Booklet: Sounds neat. Would buying three stages mean that it stacks to 60%? It might be too powerful.

It would indeed stack to 60%, but the 7% increase per AA strike would not; she would therefore need to land nine strikes to use it at its maximum power. I may lower it from 60% and 7% to 49% and 4%, just to make it a slight less powerful.

Overall, I like how you took my rather vague descriptions and totally fleshed them out with unique upgrades. The only thing I don't really like are the reflection upgrade (I wouldn't buy it) and flight not having its own button (it sounds really awkward as you presented it).
I don't know much about pricing or ranges so I didn't mention them much.

Not a problem.

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Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
Give this guy a duck lololol

DeezNauts wrote:
Nobody can see it. Maybe instead of asking for ducks, you should put it in your signature.


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina the Valkyrie
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Interesting. :shady:

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@ronimo please add settings manager to custom games or just give me a settings manager i will be good i promise


Last edited by Funnynin on Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Valentina the Valkyrie
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:07 am
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We never thought up any better story design. I like the idea of a character who fanatically fights for justice and will fight anyone who is (or appears) to be a threat.
I hope that there's another Design-a-Naut in the future so I could submit all this, or that Ronimo would look at this and consider all these fleshed-out designs for the future.
i still deserve something for having my victory taken out of my hands, especially when val winning the first poll through "rigging" somehow is much worse than the second poll being proven just as riggable, with people specifically antivoting val and the owls as a result of one guy screwing everything up


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 Post subject: Re: Valentina the Valkyrie
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:03 am 
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Location: In my palace, mixing my martinis with paint thinner and a healthy squirt of epoxy adhesive.
I highly doubt they have enough time (read: Care enough) to look through all of the well-developed ideas.

I only develop mine because, if I did not, I could churn out dozens per day.

Are there any further alterations that can be made to this Valkyrie?

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Say no to SAM wrote:
Give this guy a duck for making such a good job with this thread

Nekomian wrote:
Give this guy a duck lololol

DeezNauts wrote:
Nobody can see it. Maybe instead of asking for ducks, you should put it in your signature.


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