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 Post subject: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Caught myself on posting too much lately (I have an excuse! sometimes work is so boring:D), but I believe this is the last tactics question I have left about the gameplay.
To begin with, I started playing relatively recently (dec 2017). Been randomly carried to l3 (just luck really, no my merit here). So I've seen good teamplay. On enemy teams...

From there I have questions:
1 how do people have so much synergy in a random team sometimes and how to achieve that in your own team?
2 should I pick depending on my teammates choice or just go for what I know for particular map? What is the best I can do if they picked something weird (like rocco+leon on aigui)?
3 is it mandatory to learn "strong" multipurpose 'nauts like Skoll, Swiggs, Yuri, Skree? Every time I try them is a complete disaster (with bots ofcourse, I try not to grief people), but in 1/third of my matches even an intermediate one-of-em would change the whole thing.
4 what should I do if it's clear we must (and could!) be aggressive and my team doesn't support me with that?


Please don't tell me about positioning and map awareness, just how do I read people's minds and help them, or allow them to help me? How do you see how offensive or defensive your teammates can be? Rank means zork (except top 500 or so), got it already.

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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:10 pm 
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It's kinda a weird thing to explain.

Sometimes you get synergy with people in pubs, sometimes you don't. It depends on your approach. Do you want to do things and have your teammates follow or are you happy to follow up on what your teammates do. It's not quite as binary as that but generally the better players will tend to lead more often.
If your team gets the impression that you know what you are doing then they will tend to follow up on what you do.
It's pretty much just luck whether or not you get a team that knows what they need to be doing, it just happens more often the higher your rating is.

There are only a few nauts that are actually reliant on having a team that works with you. The best way to play in pubs is to just pick a naut you like and get good with that naut. Other than Yoolip it's pretty damn rare that your naut can't do anything so the comp your allies have won't matter that much.

The "good" soloq nauts tend to be the ones that can do stuff without needing a team. E.G. I pretty much only pub with a rotation of Ted, Skoll, Qi'tara, Rae and Gnaw and then have a few other picks like Chucho etc. These are all nauts that can carry 1v3 if necessary.

Reading your teammates minds is just something you have to kinda guess at initially then play around it as the game progresses. The nauts community isn't that large so there is also a pretty good chance you start recognising names after a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 pm 
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eddster27 wrote:
it just happens more often the higher your rating is

I almost got that feeling when I was 4200... But then I started learning :party: and :tongue: There's no way to go back there now.

eddster27 wrote:
The "good" soloq nauts

Got it. That's a problem. Bad, bad, bad... Okay.

eddster27 wrote:
The nauts community isn't that large so there is also a pretty good chance you start recognising names after a while.

This works indeed. Remembered a lot of nice people and I'm glad when they are in my team. But that's almost a duoq. Doesn't count.


Played some DuoQ matches with a Scoop that doesn't miss his hammer (unlike me:D). All ez wins (except the last one, but I managed to reboot and come back just in time), but what was funny - our 3rd guys just started following us automatically as if we were playing full comp. No questions asked, just synergy really. Well, there was a pro sentry once, who killed everything before we even started playing, so not everything is perfectly smooth even with duo.

Damn I need my platoon so badly! But I cannot lure them to Awesomenauts even with Penny's nude pics :tear:

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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:13 am 
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There are very few bad nauts for soloq, it's basically only Yoolip tbh. For the love of god never play this naut if you want to do anything past League 4 (rant done). Some nauts just do it better than others.

I was bored and made a tier list. Doesn't reflect the strength of the nauts overall. Just how effective they are as a soloq naut. Enjoy.

Frog - B Vulnerable to being killed with poor positioning but outside of that Frog can have a large impact on the game.

Lone - C Struggles against stacks good push slightly makes up for this.

Leon - C Takes too much solar to get going. Good assassin and brawler with capable droid clear.

Scoop - C Too little dmg. Can just about work if you go for a Penguin Throne build.

Gnaw - A Incredible map presence and push. Able to kill people very easily with solid power spikes early to mid

Rae - A Great push, Brawling and teamfight capabilities. Can be overwhelmed by stacks.

Ayla - B/C Able to 1v1 everything under the sun. Lacks push and vulnerable to tanky compositions, also very easy to die and throw the game.

Clunk - C Low mobility makes him extremely vulnerable. Late game is great and if he gets ahead is very difficult to deal with.

Voltar - B Able to 1v3 pretty effectively with aa dps and healbot wins any teamfight it goes off in.

Coco - B Solid all-rounder

Skoll - B Can carry but can easily get shut down unless you are the better than everyone on the enemy team.

Yuri - B Extremely hard to kill if played effectively and scales really well into late game. Lacks push without team support

Derpl - B Nuke is great

Vinnie - C Not enough dmg to kill without team support. Poor mobility often kills you after you dash in.

Genji - B aa is great, late game is great, can get overwhelmed easily

Swiggins - B does have enough dmg late game to 100-0 people. Dies easily if you don't win the fight when you hook in.

Rocco - B Enough dps to carry. Too squishy a lot of the time.

Ksenia - B great dmg and clear, not enough dmg vs people that stick together.

Ix - B Really solid brawling and teamfighting. Not quite enough dmg in straight up teamfights.

Ted - A Awesome dmg, awesome push. Often dies due to poor positioning but late game he becomes unfair with heal on airstrike and stim shield.

Penny - A Great dmg, mobility and fighting. Slightly vulnerable when pushing.

Sentry - B Synergises very well with teammates but that isn't always guaranteed. Can get caught out fairly easily.

Skree - B dmg and push are both good enough but Skree is just a little bit too vulnerable to be A tier.

Nibbs - B Really really good late game. Takes too long to get their.

Yoolip - D never pick this naut he can't do anything himself past L4

Chucho - A Only really has trouble dealing with very aggressive enemy comps that walk forwards.

Lux - A Solid all-rounder tankiness makes him excell over other nauts.

Max - C Not able to commit enough reliable dmg without getting himself killed.

Deadlift - A Almost impossible to actually kill. mid game dmg spike lets him scale well mid-late game.

Dizzy - A Very difficult to kill. Insane droid clear. When enemy cooldowns are down she can do some serious dmg. Can lack push.

Smiles - C Not enough dmg to do things without a team.

Rocket - S if you lose games with this naut you are doing something wrong.

Qi'tara - A Probably the only naut that can consistently kill 3 people with 1 ability.

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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:56 am 
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Good list bove, but from my experience, Clunk is easy ticket to L2 when you learn how to land snarebites. When facing ranks sub 1000 I struggle with him more though, as they know when to counter him.

Good Lonestars are A-B via pushing too imho. Lost many matches to a lonely Lonestar with close to 20 000 turret dmg (like yesterday had 9/3 as Clunk, but never had a chance of winning since the enemy push was too solid). He cant do that 100% alone though, the rest of the team needs to hold the enemies a little too.

For the actual question about synergy in soloq, that can be tricky. :lolstar: Quite often it seems that your worst opponents are your teammates, who care only about their personal K/D, and if they type something, it is to mock their team members being noobs and feeders. :cocoon: But when you get that team who types GL HF and actually stick to you and plays nice, game just... works, and your team will have a chance.

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Last edited by IsoKoala on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:05 pm 
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IsoKoala wrote:
But when you get that team who types GL HF and actually stick to you and plays nice, game just... works, and your team will have a chance.

Sadly I get that message from the enemy team most of the times. That tells me I'm gonna have a bad time actually. Good sign though are enemy taunts before gates opening. You just outplay them because you don't lose time pressing "1" :lolstar:

There's a problem with location too. Russian and eastern Europe players are often sooo rude. They are mostly nice guys if you get to know them better, say in steam chat, but during random matches, DAM! :facepalm:
Pointing a noob he's a noob doesn't help. In fact, quite the opposite.

As for the list, that seems more accurate than the "official" ones. But I also would like to say that Lone and Clunk are quite ok even in L2 if they know what they're doing. Lone is a bit squishy, but under sertain conditions (Ribbit without Derpl for example) he can be a real PITA for enemy push and defence. And I had L2 Clunk carry once. He was outstanding! 24/3 or something. Enemy team just went suicide bombing desperately trying to take him down.

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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:47 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:08 am 
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ScR wrote:
Image


Hmm?
Seems that the whole team was cabable anyway, Rocket or not. I guess your "Rocket OP" text is blocking his items though, surely he had more items than one medican?

In the case you were being sarcastic and actually meant that he was the weakest link with least kills in the team, keep in mind, that he did more than 2x the turret damage than the rest 2 members combined (including Gnaw, who is supposed to be the turret melter). And thats where Rocket shines at; breaking things without getting killed, even if he doesnt always get top kills himself. :chucho:

Gnaw+Chucho+Rocket/Lonestar give great turret melting synergy btw. :thumb: Its crazy what they can do if the enemy doesnt kill them fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:05 am 
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IsoKoala wrote:
Seems that the whole team was cabable anyway, Rocket or not. I guess your "Rocket OP" text is blocking his items though, surely he had more items than one medican?

That was me as Rocket. And only 2 medicans, no other items. And yes, this was sarcastic because they had no team. Full time in the field, with no teleports home or going behind turrets - that's the point. Rocket is impossible to catch, even when controlled by a noob. I was just checking "play Rocket to win" statement and did stuff to survive and win, not to get kills. It works! :lolstar:

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 Post subject: Re: Team synergy. How to?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:19 pm 
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ScR wrote:
1 how do people have so much synergy in a random team sometimes and how to achieve that in your own team?

Map awareness. Popular beliefs would state that you need a mic to coordinate, but the truth is that yuo don't, and when i play with friends over the mic i'm barely communicating anything.

Just by a simple look at the map and your status bar (that you should activate btw ; no idea why it's not ON by default), you know :
  • Is a fight going on? Where?
  • Where are your teammates? How healthy are they?
  • Is there any enemy spotted? Where?
  • Where are your droids => which part of the map is visible? Invisible? Are you going to be pushed soon?

Based on that, you can act. Either help your mates in the teamfight, or push, or go back & clear droid waves, or go regenerate in base.. Given a certain point in time, you have many different possibilities. Synergy (to me) is when everyone is doing his best for the team given his current situation.

ScR wrote:
2 should I pick depending on my teammates choice or just go for what I know for particular map? What is the best I can do if they picked something weird (like rocco+leon on aigui)?

I play Random everytime and I'm rank 1500 in League 2 with around 50% win rate. In pubs, the Naut you take doesn't matter that much. Unless you want to steamroll your opponents with friends, in which case you take a broken comp and ta-da. :P

Just enjoy the game and play the Naut you want to play.

ScR wrote:
3 is it mandatory to learn "strong" multipurpose 'nauts like Skoll, Swiggs, Yuri, Skree? Every time I try them is a complete disaster (with bots ofcourse, I try not to grief people), but in 1/third of my matches even an intermediate one-of-em would change the whole thing.

I used to play Skolldir very bad, now I'm decent with him but it's not my strongest naut. Actually I can't think of any naut that I did not like before, that now is my strongest.

I think people are good with the nauts they like. If you like the gameplay of a naut, just play him. Playing a Naut just because you feel forced to is the worst way to learn.

e.g. I keep trying Yuri every now and then but it's an absolute disaster everytime I play him :tongue:

ScR wrote:
4 what should I do if it's clear we must (and could!) be aggressive and my team doesn't support me with that?

Define "if it's clear". Given a situation there are several possible approaches ; if your team does not follow, then maybe it's not that clear you should be agressive.

Besides, in SoloQ you cannot enforce a strat on your team. If you tell your mates to play agressively but it's not their playstyle, either 1) they end up feeding, or 2) they won't play naturally, which will decrease your team performance. Either way it's bad.

You can suggest though to your team. It's very different from deciding. Instead of saying "help me when i engage plz" and mashing 2 (i'm stereotyping here), you say "we should stick together" or "i think we should be more agressive"

I have an example of a game I had with 2 teammates who started feeding early on. Been there, done that, I knew where it would lead. I told them to not go to middle alone, whenever we are 2 we retreat, only when we are 3 we try to gain back some area ; and I also focused a lot on saving them. In particular I encouraged them when i saw they did good stuff. This allowed us to gain back some synergy, and win the game quite unexpectedly. It was q uite tense match ; but we went from "0 chance of winning" to "yeah we can win this".

If I had told them "plz don't feed" i'm quite sure it wouldn't have helped the situation at all. But instead I tried to be constructive as much as i could. SO if you are in a situation where you are convinced of something, just be constructive about it and never cross the line of ordering people. Always stay on the suggestions, and sticking close to them if they don't play that good.

The above is all assuming that your teammates are in fault. Some other times (more often than not), it's you who engage too early and your mates don't have time to follow. I've seen a lot of players do that - typically, engaging 1v3 without even looking if their mates follow, die, and then mashing 2. It's important to be agressive, but there is a time for everything ; the best time to attack is when your team is ready to.

ScR wrote:
Please don't tell me about positioning and map awareness, just how do I read people's minds and help them, or allow them to help me? How do you see how offensive or defensive your teammates can be? Rank means zork (except top 500 or so), got it already.

Oops sorry already wrote about map awareness.

But map awareness is really the answer to that. Before engaging, look if your mates follow. If you engage and no one follows, just don't egnage next time and stick closer to your allies. It's not about guessing how your teammates work, but it's about changing your own playstyle to match your teammates. And possibly suggest them new strats.

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