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 Post subject: Re: thoughts on penny?
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:04 pm 
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You mean to tell me two upgrades that fill the same niche are allowed to both be good?

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 Post subject: Re: thoughts on penny?
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:05 pm 
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eddster27 wrote:
nine tails is a meme upgrade


I find Volatile wheel more of a meme upgrade than ninetails badge.

Giving up a bit of AA damage or sustain for a lot of extra mobility is a trade I'd take any day. Where as I wouldn't want to give up a more useful pounce upgrade over a double-edged sword range pounce. I do think there are several ways of playing Penny and if that works for you feel free to keep using it, this is just my take on it.

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 Post subject: Re: thoughts on penny?
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:19 pm 
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i dont really think its that difficult to imagine scenarios where volatile wheels or ninetail badge is useful in a non meme way. not being mandatory required pick doesnt make something a meme ugprade, thats actually ideal

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 Post subject: Re: thoughts on penny?
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Volatile Wheels isn't bad, it just has some really stiff competition and has the added weakness of requiring certain builds to really shine.
If you're using Pulse as an initiator and have Grey Man Group it can work wonders.

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 Post subject: Re: thoughts on penny?
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:45 pm 
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I've been dedicated to Nine Tails Fox Badge pretty much since Penny's release. I like to be fast as fucc boii. :party:

The problem with it now is that Penny's constant nerfs has shaped a lot of upgrades into a mandatory state. Spiderbird is basically mandatory since a light breeze kills you nowadays, and to that extent Herring Snack is really powerful. Damage is still damage, and Attack Speed is always good on Penny and is her only real "pushing" upgrade since it increases the frequency that you can hit Droids and Turrets. Even Grey Man Group has some uses, though it's still largely a meme crutch that you unlock far too late to use as a crutch.
Honestly Penny would be one of the strongest 'nauts in the game if you were able to buy all her upgrades. (Or at least all her upgrades on a specific row.) Her AA row is one of the strongest in the game with a lot of great utility options as well as strong fighting upgrades.

The problem now with Penny is that you have to play so safe due to the amount of brainless CC and burst in this game. Say what you will about Genji and Swiggins but at least we didn't have to deal with bull like zorking Smiles and Stunpack Ted when Penny was in her prime.
The reason the meta has shaped around stall and push is because teamfights are automatically won by whoever has the brainless "free kill" CC button. The leveling system has made it so that a 1:0 trade (while challenging before and still potential grounds for a loss) is now pretty much an automatic lose from the start of the game. The difference between the early levels is massive, and it is so easy for a team to get one or two free kills and then steamroll with the damage and health boost they gain, permanently keeping ahead of the pack and winning through broken "win more" mechanics. Push strats exist in an attempt to end the game before the enemy team gets lucky, and stall strats exist so both teams can get to level 20 and you can actually play the game normally now.

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 Post subject: Re: thoughts on penny?
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Penny is one of the worst assassins to pick atm. Ksenia and Qitara get the damage done quick and safely, Frog is frog, Vinnie can rely off fear of an aoe burst silence, and Leon can backup as a god tier pusher if he cannot be an assassin. Penny is the only assassin besides Leon that needs to land AAs to get the kill and it doesn't work for as well. Its not for the charges, she just straight up won't kill until you set the pulse up right and pounce them in the correct spot before amp wears off and then finish with AA. Compare that to the work the other assassins put in, Penny isn't worth the trouble. Too much risk, takes to long. Now if I was Ksenia I'd be at just as much risk but she deals damage quicker Overnerfed and too expensive and unfun to build. If she gets out picked she can only rely on ranged pokes.

The problem is Penny is "balanced" around the fact both her abilities are aoes. This has led to her current state were she needs to play carefully and respect opponents. Meanwhile none of the other assassins have to. The only naut who is close to Pennys problem is Nibbs, but Nibbs has upgrades to help with that. Meanwhile Penny has those upgrades but she cannot choose them because shes forced to choose raw damage or she falls off, and still will endgame. Penny players now pick pounce knockback because its the best thing she can do. Which if this was 3 years ago, would of been nerfed hastily. Just don't pick Penny, her risks are not worth it.

Remove the movement halt on Pulse. Anyone decent with Penny already makes sure theyre jumping so they don't lose 100% momentum.

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 Post subject: Re: thoughts on penny?
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Pounce knockback is hilarious so I'm fine with this.

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