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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:36 pm 
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Joost wrote:
Really cool to finally see a fun co-op challenge in Awesomenauts like this, coolcoolcool! :worship:

I played a round on my own and have a couple of ideas for how it could maybe be even more fun:

-I was max level within 10 minutes. After that a layer of fun (levelling) is lost. This is because of the massive number of kills of course, but you could try compensating for that by making upgrades much more expensive (there is a setting for that). You could also let the player level additionally by giving him botlevel upgrades if he get large amounts of gold. Botlevel upgrades give cooldown reduction so a player with 20000 gold could become super strong this way, which would be a nice goal to play towards and feel empowering.

-The first couple of minutes are a bit boring: I just get one enemy at a time and that's it. Would be more interesting to have a bunch of weak enemies instead of just one enemy. Also, it was a bit too simple at the beginning, so having more enemies might help with that.

-Most of the bots just walk past the player. This is fine in traditional tower defence but it might be a lot more fun to have them actually fight the player. Have you played the Swords & Soldiers 1 survival mode? This mode had a really fun design idea: each wave is a little puzzle. In this case you could have ten Froggy's all constantly doing Whirlwind. Just dash into that and you die. But use a ranged attack and it becomes doable. I think it might be really fun to have more puzzle-like opponents and make them super hard if you don't figure out the counter. It might also be okay if some classes cannot win: figuring out how to counter things becomes part of the puzzle then. In S&S1 players usually lost to the first wave immediately in their first session. This is better than losing to the fifth wave because trying again with a different tactic is really quick.

Anyway, just some ideas I had, it is already really cool as it is! :scoop:


Thank you Joost!

I like your ideas, but you have to explain me some things.


Give the player bot-cheats? Can I even change anything about the player in an AI?
Do elaborate on this, because that is something I haven't done anything about yet.
Change cooldowns?? :O Do enlighten us!

Make upgrades more expensive. Noted. That's a thing players must do in their "Customize" settings.

I like the idea of waves fighting the player, but that kinda ruins the idea of tower defense, doesn't it?
Idea: Every second wave, is about fighting them. If player is not near, target base instead.


I have not played S&S1 yet, but that sounds interesting. If I do it, every second wave, it should be possible to make special AIs for that specific purpose.



Also, you said it was boring in the beginning because only 1 spawns at a time. That's true, and that's because enemy nauts are quite hard to kill on their own, when you're alone and un-upgraded.
If you had played with 2 other players you'd start with 3 bots per wave.

I should change this to make it more fun in the beginning though. Thank you.


Better losing quick, than having a longer game?
Hmm... Noted.

Though, I found that the fun part was also to play against an enormous wave, and just feel the way you in the end couldn't handle them all.


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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:08 pm 
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FlawlessHair wrote:
... Give the player bot-cheats? Can I even change anything about the player in an AI?

Good point, I forgot that a bot can only give himself upgrades, not others...

FlawlessHair wrote:
I like the idea of waves fighting the player, but that kinda ruins the idea of tower defense, doesn't it?

It is indeed not what standard tower defence is, but why would you want it to be? To me the main idea of your mod is to defend the drillcore against waves. Waves indeed need to move towards the drillcore for that, but there is no reason why they couldn't battle the player when they encounter him.


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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:19 pm 
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Joost wrote:
FlawlessHair wrote:
... Give the player bot-cheats? Can I even change anything about the player in an AI?

Good point, I forgot that a bot can only give himself upgrades, not others...


JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!!!!!! Image
Had me hyped for nothing...

(Though... planning on implementing that...?)

Joost wrote:
FlawlessHair wrote:
I like the idea of waves fighting the player, but that kinda ruins the idea of tower defense, doesn't it?

It is indeed not what standard tower defence is, but why would you want it to be? To me the main idea of your mod is to defend the drillcore against waves. Waves indeed need to move towards the drillcore for that, but there is no reason why they couldn't battle the player when they encounter him.


Aye! Good points, indeed! I'll be working on this whenever I have the time, to make interesting battles and even more enemies!
*Holds up Heartshaped Net*


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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:38 pm 
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I've stumbled upon this mod two days ago and am really in love with it. It's so simple but it opens up a whole new game. I wish it were an official game mode but it's nearly perfect the way it is now so it doesn't really have to be.

I was wondering though, one of the future custom game settings we're going to get is allowing uneven teams (ex: 4v2, 5v1). Do you think this mod would still work with 4 or 5 players?

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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:50 pm 
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dm1 wrote:
I've stumbled upon this mod two days ago and am really in love with it. It's so simple but it opens up a whole new game. I wish it were an official game mode but it's nearly perfect the way it is now so it doesn't really have to be.

I was wondering though, one of the future custom game settings we're going to get is allowing uneven teams (ex: 4v2, 5v1). Do you think this mod would still work with 4 or 5 players?


I'd have to update it. But yes. It works with any amount of characters.

I'm very glad you like it. Right now I'm working on updating it into something Joost told me about.

I'm going to let the old version stay, and then also upload the new version ^_^


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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:36 pm 
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ImageFlawlessTD v2.0Image
After Joost suggested how he thought FlawlessTD could be, I reworked it.

In 2.0:
A random naut wave spawns.
Nauts target you. If you're not there, they will target the base.
Every naut is gimmicky and only builds into one or two things.

For an example:
Clunk buys explode, but only explodes when he'll kill himself.

Contains almost every naut. (Missing Yuri)
And yes, it is hard. I think i've made it to 10 minuts, max.
Should work with all maps.

DOWNLOAD


Also, no Mesp, I will not include a wave of raining exploding Clunks.


Last edited by FlawlessHair on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:23 am 
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FlawlessHair wrote:
Also, no Mesp, I will not include a wave of raining exploding Clunks.


:fist:

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Bots I've made:

[In-Game] Derpl viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35642 :drool:

http://imgur.com/5P0Ais3


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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:39 pm 
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Two problems I found with v2.0:

- No Derplturret? (is this intended?)
- Now that everything targets you, you can go to the totems blocking the enemy base with ayla
and rage indefinitely with rope and drawings while enemies suicide into you. The only waves
to really pose a threat are the Clunk waves.

I love that you're updating the mod although I'm not sure I prefer this one over previous versions. :shady:

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Last edited by PietaPizza on Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:06 pm 
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PietaPizza wrote:
Two problems I found with v2.0:

- No Derplturret? (is this intended?)
- Now that everything targets you, you can go to the totems blocking the enemy base with ayla
and rage indefinitely with rope and drawings while enemies suicide into you. The only waves
to really pose a threat are the Clunk waves.

I love that you're updating the mod although I'm not sure I prefer this one over previous versions. :shady:


That's why I kept both versions.
Derpl may not be spawning in the current version, but I'm going to add it.

Yup, you can do that with Ayla. Though, you can't be secure that everyone comes from the same lane. (Try a different map and see how that goes).
Also, you WILL die at some point. Sentrybombs, Skølldir-throws and Whirlwinds, WILL get you at some point.

You are the one to decide how you play it! I don't mind. But it's nothing to brag about getting to 20 minutes with Ayla. Do it with Voltar and I may consider you pretty good.


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 Post subject: Re: [GAMEMODE] Flawless' Tower Defence
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:22 pm 
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FlawlessHair wrote:
You are the one to decide how you play it! I don't mind. But it's nothing to brag about getting to 20 minutes with Ayla. Do it with Voltar and I may consider you pretty good.


Haha yes, I thought I'd just mention it. Something I forgot to mention btw is that as well as the Derplturret, the boss from previous versions seems to be missing. :tear:

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Last edited by PietaPizza on Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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