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 Post subject: Re: [SUBMISSION] ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI (please test?)
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:01 pm 
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The bot is almost flawless.

Only problems I found were that he tanks droids, taking lots of damage from them, and that he SHOULD STOP TAKING CREEPS WHEN I'M LOW ON HEALTH AND NEXT TO THEM Image

Other than that

Image

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 Post subject: Re: [SUBMISSION] ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI (please test?)
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:01 pm 
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We just tested him, and though generally ok he is oftentimes too reckless resulting in a lot of unnecessary deaths.


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 Post subject: Re: [SUBMISSION] ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI (please test?)
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Played a bit more with him, and, umm... this happened

I can also agree with Jasper, he sometimes goes in too much, and he stays in the fight until he finally gets a kill or gets killed.

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 Post subject: Re: [SUBMISSION] ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI (please test?)
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:00 pm 
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Firstly, thank you all for testing! I didn't anticipate this level of response, but I'm grateful for all of your time. It's incredibly helpful/useful, especially for issues that I didn't notice myself. I'm sincerely sorry that I can't respond to everyone's posts at the moment, but I'll try to do so as soon as possible (however, I /have/ read everything and would like to thank you (plural) for such detailed responses).

In the meantime, here's a small update which hopefully fixes the over-aggressiveness. I'll post replies and explanations to everything soon.

Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ipMxtE1awwNXFTZERkU1MxdWM/view?usp=sharing

(Please report any/all issues you find! :ayla: )

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Last edited by trinary on Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [SUBMISSION] ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI (please test?)
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:17 pm 
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v4 is broken now. He won't even go all the way to the shop to buy items when he spawns.


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 Post subject: Re: [SUBMISSION] ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI (please test?)
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:34 am 
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Thanks, I'll fix this within a few hours. ^^

edit: Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ipMxtE1awwaDdlOUtCb0JMS3c/view?usp=sharing

edit: Please don't test this ^ yet, it's not quite complete, and I don't want to waste anyone's time on something that'll be changed shortly.

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Last edited by trinary on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [SUBMISSION] ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI (please test?)
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:46 am 
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We have also tested him internally (as Jasper already mentioned) and unfortunately we don't think he is good enough yet to make it into the game. There is a lot of potential here, as the other testers have noted, but right now he simply dies too often.

Looking at how positive the community feedback on this bot is, I think he should be able to make it into the next patch with the right tweaks and improvements. I would really love to see a Genji bot back in the game, so it is great to see your bot is already this close! :ayla:

If you happen to make big improvements in the coming days, you are welcome to send me an email on Monday to re-evaluate it for 2.11. This would also require that a couple of community members also try that new version and post it here to get more opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Psst. Trinary. Try these.

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 Post subject: Re: [SUBMISSION] ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI (please test?)
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:00 pm 
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TheMesp wrote:
Alright, I tested both your genji bot and Ignotis's genji at the same time twice, one with your genji on my team and ignotis's on the enemy and vice versa.

Note that all comments unless explicitly stated otherwise are referring to your genji.

AS AN ALLY:

Genji is an AMAZING ally. Genji's cocoons helped set up multiple kills, and genji is an amazing 1v1 brawler. Genji has trouble knowing when a fight is lost, however, and would occasionally get himself killed chasing a low health opponent. Genji feels like the perfect ally to me: won't carry a human to victory but gives the human the ability to win based on ability.

Genji's support in teamfights helped win us the game.

AS AN ENEMY:

Very, very aggressive. This helped genji get a few kills, but it got genji killed more. Sometimes the aggressiveness would catch me off guard, and I paid the price for it, but genji is picking a lot of fights he cant win, especially against low-health enemies by fortified positions, such as turrets. 75% of Genji's deaths could have easily been avoided by just retreating instead of picking the fight.

Genji is an amazing 1v1 brawler. Your genji almost always won 1v1s against Ignotis's genji, and one time I was at full health as skolldir and genji was on his last 2 bars, but genji engaged me and brought me from full to 2 bars left before I finally killed Genji. This engagement showed both genji's amazing 1v1 potential, but also genji's over-aggressiveness getting him killed.

Genji used both his skills, but they were mostly offensive. I don't know if you've done this already, but I would suggest genji using cocoon as an escape as well, rather than just for initiations.

Genji ended up losing the game against me, partially due to his over-aggressiveness but also in part that my skolldir game was on point, none of the bots on genji's team had a respectable k/d.

CONCLUSIONS:

Trinary's Genji is a force to be reckoned with, and I would definitely suggest adding this one into the game.

My only complaint is genji not realizing when a fight is lost, and genji needs to retreat. My suggestion would be to have genji check if there are enemies around his target that have lots of health, and then retreat. However, BE CAREFUL! Test EXTENSIVELY any fix you come up for this, as it might upset the balance that makes this bot so good.

as well, genji doesn't use monarch blessing much. I saw it occasionally, but perhaps up the frequency when Genji would use this. This is a minor complaint though.

OVERALL RATING: 9/10
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:


My main issue with it is its lack of fear as well. ^^

I tracked it and the status of all of its variables when I noticed it in one such engagement (outnumbered, and at low health, but somehow still fighting). Every variable was set as expected - it /knew/ it was outnumbered, its detection of the number of allies/enemies in the area was normal, retreatingCustom/retreatingFromNauts was set to true, etc. and its state was set to 10. Despite this, it was not retreating. This is something that's a very large issue, which is why I'm glad it was noticed before anything serious occurred, and it's my first priority at the moment.

Thank you for pointing that out! I've added logic for using Cocoon while retreating in my current version, though it needs to be tested more thoroughly.

Blessing logic is also something that needs to be improved/rewritten for more use in a variety of cases. ^^

Lastly, thank you for taking the time to write all of this up. I appreciate the amount of time and effort it takes to test bots, and this level of detail is incredibly helpful for improving it :worship:

I hope you did/do well on your final!

hurleybird wrote:
He's awesome. Simply awesome. I love the fact that he's aggressive -- if he manages to kill a player it's more than worth an extra death. That he's so good at brawling makes him a great bot to practice with.

It feels like his solar gain might be a bit high compared to other bots, but it's hard to tell with bank.

Genji's autoattack is very, very good, at least early-game, and that's not its skill but merely the upgrades it takes :ayla:
Aggression is actually something that I want to tone down, but I'll try to retain it wherever/whenever it's safe!

Hmm, I didn't really notice anything untoward, but perhaps you're more experienced and thus able to spot even tiny fluctuations from expected solar values that I would't. I'll look into it. It does always take Bank, and it currently follows a fixed build, so that's something that I'm going to rewrite.

Ignotis wrote:
I had a look at your code. This bot is simply excellent. You clearly put a lot of effort into him and took the best tips from the best bots. More than any other, I can say that ButterflyAI deserves to get into the game.

EDIT: Looks like "Why won't you push?" has a check for DangerousNaut to be false. However, it is always false, since it is set to false by "Move away from dangerous people."

This is high praise from you o_o (although I'm aware of its many issues)

Thank you for noticing that - I'll rearrange the variable resets so that all variables are reset at the start of each tick instead of inside each 'block'. It'll be cleaner/clearer as well.

AcetheAlien wrote:
This Genji bot is incredible. He does very well in fights; his cocoon aiming is precise and has led to many kills, and he knows to use his Monarch Blessing when he's in danger or if his teammates are nearby.

He's not without his problems though. Genji is very, very aggressive when it comes to fighting. So much to the point where he doesn't think to retreat when he's in danger, which more often than not leads to his death, even if he does get a kill in the end. This causes him to have a high number of kills, but an equally high number of deaths as well.

When it comes to bugs or oddities, Genji doesn't have that many that I've seen so far. There was one occasion on AI Station 404 where another bot and I were attacking the first turret. The enemy Genji wasn't sure what to do and started spazzing out before he decided to teleport to base. I also noticed while watching a replay that a Genji bot used Monarch Blessing while at base for no particular reason. Aside from that, he functions really well.

Overall, ButterflyAI has a lot of potential. If his aggression is toned down a bit and he starts to retreat when he's low on health, then I'd say he has a good chance of making it into the game. Well done. :thumb:

Thank you for testing this :redcheer:

Forcing it to retreat is currently my first priority, now, thanks to all the feedback noticing this issue.
The last issue is one that shouldn't be occurring, however. It's specifically written to not use Blessing while inside the shop, so it's something that I'll have to try to fix.

KidaFeru wrote:
The bot is almost flawless.

Only problems I found were that he tanks droids, taking lots of damage from them, and that he SHOULD STOP TAKING CREEPS WHEN I'M LOW ON HEALTH AND NEXT TO THEM Image

Other than that

[img]

I've added things to make it jump up and down while clearing droids in an attempt to avoid taking damage from them, but I'll try to improve that given your feedback (hopefully, let it hover above them entirely).

It's actually programmed to target/kill any and all creeps/droids when no enemies are in the area, but I forgot about neutral creeps, including health creeps :­P
I'll add checks to prevent it from taking those when an ally is in the area which has less health than it (or has DoT and may die otherwise).

Thank you for noticing these things before anything serious occurred! :redcheer:

KidaFeru wrote:
Played a bit more with him, and, umm... this happened

I can also agree with Jasper, he sometimes goes in too much, and he stays in the fight until he finally gets a kill or gets killed.

Its lack of fear is definitely something that I need to tweak. ^^

I'm not entirely sure what happened there, as as mentioned before it's supposed to prioritize targeting creeps/droids whenever possible, but I'll look into it and try to reproduce it!

Jasper wrote:
We just tested him, and though generally ok he is oftentimes too reckless resulting in a lot of unnecessary deaths.

Thank you for the testing! Decreasing its recklessness is currently my first priority ^^

Joost wrote:
We have also tested him internally (as Jasper already mentioned) and unfortunately we don't think he is good enough yet to make it into the game. There is a lot of potential here, as the other testers have noted, but right now he simply dies too often.

Looking at how positive the community feedback on this bot is, I think he should be able to make it into the next patch with the right tweaks and improvements. I would really love to see a Genji bot back in the game, so it is great to see your bot is already this close! :ayla:

If you happen to make big improvements in the coming days, you are welcome to send me an email on Monday to re-evaluate it for 2.11. This would also require that a couple of community members also try that new version and post it here to get more opinions.

Thank you for the feedback! It's a very large issue that I didn't notice before submitting it, which is why I'm glad that so many people noticed it. I'll definitely try to do that :worship:

Ignotis wrote:
Psst. Trinary. Try these.

Thank you, I'm going to try these :ayla:

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 Post subject: Re: ButterflyAI - a WIP Genji AI
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:34 am 
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Hopefully, it's slightly less reckless, now.

Thank you, TheMesp, for the suggestions and the help debugging :ayla:

Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2ipMxtE1awwV1c2OE1EVjRVemc/view?usp=sharing

Changelog:
- Retreats at low health and when outnumbered
- Rearranged variable resets to trigger some blocks properly (also cleaner/clearer)
- Improved movement
- Uses Cocoon and/or Blessing while retreating

(Please report any/all issues you find :ayla: )

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