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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:32 am 
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potterman28wxcv wrote:
Why are you complaining about it? In 3 matches maximum you unlock them all anyway?

Just like the tutorial :ksenia:


I'm not opposed to the system, but can we not lock mandatory items behind locks (Qi'tara has like 4 locked damage upgrades????????). It's like Ronimo doesn't even remember this is a mechanic whenever deciding on the placement of upgrades.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:36 pm 
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eddster27 wrote:
It saves people from being too overwhelmed when they play a naut for the first time.

It's a poor argument since there are way better ways to get around that than just locking the items until lvl 3 but it is still a somewhat valid argument.

A better solution would be to just highlight the first 3 columns as being "recommended for new players" or "basic items" etc.

This would be better if they didn't lock fairly core upgrades behind level progression.
Again:
Gameinsky wrote:
(Qi'tara has like 4 locked damage upgrades????????)

The following types of upgrades should literally never be locked under any circumstance:
  • Damage
  • Counter upgrades (BKM as an example, which is unlocked at level 3)
  • Upgrades that increase basic stats like Range

Meanwhile the following types of upgrades should generally be locked behind progression as to not overwhelm the player:
  • Upgrades that change how the basic abilities work (like Smiles' Inscribed Lighter [Level 0], Rocket's Cigar Cutter [Level 0], and Ted's Tedris Ville [Level 1])
  • Combo upgrades (like Qi'Tara's Warblade [Level 0], Ted's Angel Wing Toilet Paper [Level 1], and Vinnie's Yakoiza [Level 0])
  • Crutch upgrades that weaken the player in some regards but make it easier to play (like Dizzy's Green CD [Level 0], Deadlift's Boombox Bot [Level 0], and Max's Flying Camera [Level 0]) The reason you don't want crutch perks to be unlocked at base is because you want the player to experience the character without any training wheels first so they can identify their strengths and weaknesses with the character and adjust their build accordingly. Giving the player access to "weakness fixing" upgrades from their first experience playing the character will cause a newer player to grow a dependency on these crutch perks and dus be less likely to try out other upgrades. In layman's terms: if you teach a child to walk with a cane, it might be easier for them at the moment, but it'll be a lot harder to get that kid to walk normally later on in life.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:58 pm 
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I agree, all items should be available from the start. Locked items is a handicap, especially for new players.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:59 pm 
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b-lozey wrote:
I agree, all items should be available from the start. Locked items is a handicap, especially for new players.

When I try a new character, I like that I can access only the 4 first upgrades. These 4 upgrades are already a lot to me, since I have to read them (usually for my first match with a char I just skip reading and buy whatever says "damage" in the effects). This is me with 1500 hours in the game. Now I imagine a newbie on it, and I think that even just 4 is too much.

When I started Awesomenauts it was already a lot to me to get used to 1) The MOBA style, 2) Critters, turrets placements, jump pads, 3) knowing when to teleport back to base, 4) the minimap.. There's already a lot to learn really without throwing the 6 items right away at the newbie's faces.

Or if we go that way, then we're not doing any better than LoL or DOTA2 in terms of newbie integration.

I challenge you to find a single newbie who complains about items being locked. So far I've only seen veterans complain about it.

By the way that could be a possibility: after you reach a certain profile level (e.g. lvl 25), you unlock all items. That way veterans would be happy to "not be disadvantaged for the first 3 matches" when trying out a new naut, and it would not go against newbie integration.

Just for the record: I have already won a L2 match while 1) trying out a new naut, and 2) having only the 4 first columns unlocked. And whenever I lost, i believe it was more because of my inability to play the new naut, rather than items being locked.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:19 pm 
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potterman28wxcv wrote:
Now I imagine a newbie on it, and I think that even just 4 is too much.

...R-Really?

There's a gentle introduction and then there's stripping every single complexity out until we're holding the hand so tight, its fingers are turnning purple and popping off like Roman candles.

I don't think arguing that opening up the whole row is synonymous with having Dota's breakneck "learn or die" curve, because Awesomenauts is already sufficiently simple as is, isn't it? Most casual Dota players don't even know there are four types of physical damage alone but they still cope—is introducing two more upgrades per row (that the player's going to have access to in a few games anyway) really going to send the player integration off the deep end and into "I hope you did your wider reading on the armour mechanics" territory?

I doubt it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:32 pm 
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Besides of forcing to learn to play etc. I think the items are also locked simply so that there is something to unlock in the game. To keep you playing. Feel rewarded when you gain something, etc. So, I totally understand why those are here, since the game is somewhat lacking in unlockables. Taking those away, what is left in the whole Naut Level-system anyway? I also doubt the new players are annoyed by this system, I think this is something that only vets notice anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:14 am 
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Because the sheer sense of achievement from playing a few games to unlock a 'Naut's additional upgrades is truly something to work towards, instead of a momentary annoyance?

I suppose it is something to work towards, but these straws aren't being clutched at—we're choking the very life from them at this point. They are deceased straws.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:41 am 
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The Lord Protector wrote:
potterman28wxcv wrote:
Now I imagine a newbie on it, and I think that even just 4 is too much.

...R-Really?

There's a gentle introduction and then there's stripping every single complexity out until we're holding the hand so tight, its fingers are turnning purple and popping off like Roman candles.

I don't think arguing that opening up the whole row is synonymous with having Dota's breakneck "learn or die" curve, because Awesomenauts is already sufficiently simple as is, isn't it? Most casual Dota players don't even know there are four types of physical damage alone but they still cope—is introducing two more upgrades per row (that the player's going to have access to in a few games anyway) really going to send the player integration off the deep end and into "I hope you did your wider reading on the armour mechanics" territory?

I doubt it.

Not everyone here was a MOBA player when they first started out Awesomenauts.

I was new to the genre, and yes, 4 items per row were more than enough for me when I started out.

Right now if I were to start out a new MOBA like Awesomenauts I don't think I would be annoyed by having everything unlocked from the get go. But back in the days, the progressive unlocks helped me. I'm sure of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Are Items Locked Off?
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:51 am 
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Some people dont even play a practice match with bots before trying a naut online. 4 items instead of 6 means they will join the battle from the store 20 seconds faster lol.

Granted, this doesnt happen in upper leagues, but then again the item lockoff is made for the low league reasons anyway.

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